Two Old Psychologists Talking About Stuff

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Dr Richard Bennett and Dr Ray Owen

15 May 2026

1h 6m

How to have your thoughts instead of them having you: a beginner's guide to defusion

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In the final episode of Season Two, Rich and Ray discuss a core component of the Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) approach to unwelcome thoughts, known in the trade as 'defusion'. They cover some of the reasons why our unwelcome thoughts seem so convincing and hard to ignore, and some techniques for responding to such thoughts more effectively. Our two old psychologists discuss techniques for manipulating language, for undermining the literal interpretation of thoughts, and for creating some distance from troublesome thoughts.

One of the techniques discussed in this episode is an old ACT classic commonly referred to as 'Passengers on the Bus'. If you fancy seeing a somewhat more youthful Rich, together with some colleagues, doing a video demonstration of that technique, you can find that here.

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